Simple Nutrition Insights
Welcome to Simple Nutrition Insights, your practical guide to understanding nutrition in less than 30 minutes. Join us as we break down the science of healthy eating into digestible insights and actionable tips. Whether you're a busy parent or just short on time, our goal is to provide you with straightforward advice to enhance your well-being. Tune in for expert interviews, evidence-based advice, and quick, easy-to-implement strategies for nourishing your body and living your best life.
Simple Nutrition Insights
Autism, Science, And Hope
We share a science‑first, humane roadmap for helping autistic children thrive, from gut‑immune‑brain basics to realistic school advocacy. Dr. Theresa Lyons explains how to pair parent intuition with the right tests and why small, consistent steps beat try‑everything chaos.
• New research on non‑persistent autism and why it matters
• Using intuition plus data to guide decisions
• Which clinicians to ask for what and when
• Gut health, permeability, and behavior links
• Testing before guessing on supplements and diet
• Targeted use of magnesium, probiotics, and butyrate
• Budget‑savvy lab strategy and dosing over time
• Realistic approaches to gluten‑free and dairy‑free
• School advocacy using ABC data and home baselines
• Parent mindset, grief, and sustainable self‑care
As always, this podcast is for educational purposes only and not meant to replace medical advice. So please talk with your child's healthcare team about the right treatment for your family
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Dr. Lyons Information
Thank you for listening. Please subscribe to this podcast and share with a friend. If you would like to know more about my services, please message at fueledbyleo@gmail.com
My YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0SqBP44jMNYSzlcJjOKJdg
Welcome back to Simple Nutrition Insights Podcast. I'm your host, Leonida Campos, registered dietitian and founder of Field by Leo. Today we're talking about a topic that touches so many families, autism, and specifically how parents can navigate the overwhelmed and find science-based practical steps that actually move their child's health and development forward. My guest is Dr. Theresa Lyons. She's a Yale Trained Scientist, medical strategist, autism parent, and the founder of Autism.net and the Navigating Autism Platform, where she helps parents around the world use cutting-edge autism science in a way that's real life and actionable for their families. Through her work, she supports parents in everything from understanding lab results and special diets to finding functional medicine doctors who truly understand autism. Resources she's compiled in the Lyons Report and her navigating autism programs. Dr. Lyons, I'm so grateful you're here. Welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And so for listeners who might be hearing about you for the first time, can you briefly share who you are and the work you do with families?
SPEAKER_01:Sure. So um I got involved in autism because of my daughter. She was diagnosed with autism when she was three and a half, and that was over 12 years ago. So I've been in the autism world for a long time. And I had no plans whatsoever to be in this area. I have a PhD in computational chemistry from Yale. So I was in the pharmaceutical industry. My PhD was all about structure-based drug design. And so I did work for the pharmaceutical industry as a researcher and then transitioned over more to the business side to understand, right, how does healthcare actually move forward? And then my daughter was diagnosed with autism. And very fortunately, I took all of those skills and applied it to my daughter.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's fascinating how our careers can shift, right? Yeah. In so many ways, once we become parents.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. Oh, this was not the plan whatsoever.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah. It's okay. Sometimes our calling goes to into a different way.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I love chemistry and I love teaching people. So so there's there's a lot of what I love doing now is just this is in no way anything I anticipated.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah, I can totally understand that. I know a lot of my audience are parents, caregivers, teachers, and health professionals who care deeply about kids' well-being. But autism can feel like a confusing world. There is do everything, do nothing, and a lot of conflicting opinions in between.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So in our conversation today, right, I think I do want to focus on on that, right, from a science base as well, what the science is actually telling us, and maybe practical tips that parents can use as well. Sure.
SPEAKER_01:So your your question is perfect in the sense of there's so many opinions out there. And that is very true. And that's what you really want to be discerning as a parent. You can hear things, you can be inspired, you can get curious scrolling on social media, you know, seeing different topics, or having someone else say, Hey, have you checked out this? You can go and examine it, but then that's when you really have to become very critical of, okay, what is this and is it relevant for my child? And the thing with autism that makes it seem so complex is that it can vary so much from one child to another. So that's why there's not going to be one single cause that could explain all autism. That's likely not going to happen. Just like there's not one single thing that is going to, you know, really help every single child with autism. You really have to understand what is it that the child has barriers to health, barriers to learning, and then get very specific on that. So that's really that first step of yes, there's a lot of information. Um, I think one of the most important pieces of information, scientific information that parents need to know is that in 2023, there was a clinical study done up in Massachusetts, and they filed uh several hundred kids with autism, and they saw that 37% of kids with autism lost their diagnosis, meaning they no longer qualified for an autism diagnosis. They no longer needed speech therapy and occupational therapy and physical therapy and all these additional supports that we associate with autism. And this research, those researchers found that 37% lost their diagnosis, and they're actually now referring to autism as non-persistent autism for some and autism, so persistent autism. So it's really important for parents to know this information so that they can start asking important questions, you know, okay, how how do we get to that 37%? And also to know that it's a possibility. So it's really important for parents to know that autism isn't lifelong for everyone with autism. Awesome.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's a that's wonderful information to know, right? And for the listeners to uh to hear as well. Um, it gives parents, right, or caregivers some hope to and advocate right for those resources that they might need to get to those 37% as well.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Yeah, and just even knowing this possible. So, so when my daughter was diagnosed, I didn't know that information. Um, these these kinds of studies have uh occurred for for decades. So when my daughter was diagnosed and I jumped into the research and started finding out more and more about, you know, what exactly is autism. Back then it was about 10% of kids lost their autism diagnosis. And it used to be called an optimal outcome. Now that number is getting so much larger, 37%, right, that now they're really classifying autism differently. Um, but it's it's important to know that information because you make decisions very differently.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, absolutely. And I love what you said too about that once there's a diagnosis, right, that there's so much individual individualization, right? Like looking at the individual person or child, right, for the interventions. Right. So it's like, oh, this works for this person or this child, it's gonna work for the next one, right? So like really assessing.
SPEAKER_01:Definitely. And and that's that's extremely important. So that first step is really having that critical lens of all right, this is an intervention. Does what it focus on and what it improves, is that gonna make a meaningful difference in my child's life? That's really what you want to think about before doing anything because it is so tempting. And I totally understand when when you hear someone having success and they did X, Y, Z, and you know, it's just like that new shiny thing, like, oh, let me go try it, right? But so much of hope gets kind of tangled up in these, well, let me just try. And when you do something that is just, you know, one of those try things, first off, you might not do it wholeheartedly, right? Because you might be like, well, I'll try it, but I don't think it's really gonna work. It worked for them, right? So you're already kind of talking yourself out of the potential upside. So really you want to have these decisions guided by science. So you want to use lab testing, you want to use metrics to really measure, okay, what what is changing, if anything? So this way you can make decisions really based on information.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yes, most definitely. So I want to go back to autism, right? The way that you spell it, uh which I love the spelling. What does that word mean to you? And why do you choose it as your brand and platform name?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's a great question. So, as I said, I got involved in the in autism because of my daughter. And so when she was diagnosed with autism, I hated that word. It anytime I thought of it, anytime I had to say it, I hated saying it. It just reminded me of a parenting experience that I did not sign up for, I did not want, I'm sure my daughter did not want, right? There there was hardly any joy. It was mostly bad days, sprinkled with a a little bit of occasional good days, but then I was always suspicious of why was today so good. And it it just represented in many ways a failure as me as a parent, because it was going so wrong so quickly. And as we focused on my daughter's health, and as she started to improve and engage more in life, I sat back and thought, oh my goodness, she might have had a headache every day. She might have had a stomachache, you know, muscle pain. There's there's so many things that health-wise we're working on and improving, but yet she got up every day to go to school. Like her determination was so strong. And when I started to see her in that light, that's when autism became the AWE T I S M.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I love that. And I think, you know, you brought up such a good point about uh as parents, right, feeling guilty and feeling like, what did I do wrong?
SPEAKER_01:Feeling like a failure, yes.
SPEAKER_00:Feeling like a failure. And and I don't think, you know, it's an we don't really talk about that. I'm a parent too, right? And so, um, and I can imagine, you know, in your case and in the case of of so many parents that have children with autism, right? How they feel, how they process these. So oftentimes we don't process it, right? Yeah. Um what what do you think has helped you or helped you to like move on from failure, right? Like this is my fault, to advocating and like how can we how can we do these better?
SPEAKER_01:So I think allowing myself to have those negative emotions was definitely helpful. So, you know, when my daughter was diagnosed in the parking lot in the hospital, you know, there I am crying, right? Because it was it was so emotional, even though it wasn't necessarily a surprise. And being negative, I I certainly was angry, I was frustrated, I was annoyed, I was grieving. I had all of those emotions, and it was really important though to to feel them. And I tapped into that anger of, oh yeah, well, I'm gonna figure this out. Like, so it then shifted into that determination piece. But there definitely was a lot of overlap where it'd be like, okay, I'm determined, and then you know, next day I woke up and I was distraught, right? So having patience with myself is certainly important, and having different avenues to express that. So, you know, journaling, writing, meditating. I remember one of the first times I started getting back into meditation, it was so just amazing to have just silence because autism can be so chaotic. Where it was just a you know, 15 minutes of silence, that was so recharging. I really need to make sure I do this more often, right? And I'll say another thing was as my daughter got better than when I was not in a good mood or I was not positive and all of that, I could see that reflection on her face where it's like, mom's mom's not in a good mood, you know, and I did all that work so that her and I could interact, and then, you know, I wasn't necessarily the best person I could be. So a lot of the things that I did for myself was driven by the fact that I didn't do all this work for my daughter than to look at me and be like, man, my mom's crouchy. I don't I don't want to interact with her. So I think parents can really learn how they are and how that impacts their children. And if that's what motivates them, that's what motivated me. It wasn't some altruistic, like, oh, I I definitely need to be better or anything like that. It was just more seeing the reflection in my daughter's eyes of who I was.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah, it's so powerful, right? Just seeing how behavior changes, right? Contagious.
SPEAKER_01:That's a mirror, you know, when you get it reflected back, it's like, oh, why am I grouchy? What is it? Okay, I didn't sleep, but that's not an excuse, you know. So just having the same standards for me that I would have for my daughter, you know, I would be like, why are you in a bad mood? Okay. As there's no excuse for me. So um just just really having that understanding that our kids, even in their moments of profound autism, if they're on that end of the spectrum, they're always watching us, they're always learning, they're observing. So it's really important that we understand that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Let's talk a little bit about what has changed in autism science, right? From your view, what are some of the biggest shifts in autism science over the last five to ten years that parents might not hear about in a typical office visit? Oh, there's so much.
SPEAKER_01:And it depends on what office. Like what office are they in right now? If they're in a general pediatrician's office, that is not the place to ask autism-specific questions for the most part. So general pediatricians, they're not allowed to make an autism diagnosis. They don't have the training, they don't have the expertise. So it's really important for parents to understand when they have a question, who is the most appropriate person to ask? Because a lot of times we just think, well, let's just ask the pediatrician. They they know everything, right? And they certainly know a lot. But when it really comes to autism-specific information, that that's not typically the go-to person. So that's that's really that first step. And so then it depends on, okay, what office are we in now? Like, are we in neurology? Are we in GI? Are we in, you know, a developmental pediatrician? I would say one of the biggest pieces to change in the last five to ten years, and I think just in the last two to three months, it's been absolutely huge, is the fact that there are things to do for someone with autism and that they don't deserve less medical attention than anyone else without an autism diagnosis. And what I've seen over the years is that a lot of times doctors will say, Oh, that's just autism. Oh, they can't potty train. That's just autism. Should we check for a UTI? No, why? It's just autism. They don't know how to potty train because it's autism, right? But many times it is a UTI, right? And it's a very cheap medical test to do. In the last five to ten years, I think there's been more awareness of actually treating different root causes for different symptoms and not just writing everything off as autism related.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for sharing that. And that's so powerful because when we, and you're correct, right? When we have questions as parents or we're concerned about something with their development or anything in general, we want to ask their doctor, right? Because that's for us, that's maybe the only person that will have the answer. But you also mentioned something so important, right, about the diagnoses. So who can make a diagnosis of autism?
SPEAKER_01:So they have to be specialized. So it's usually either a developmental pediatrician, a pediatric neurologist. Those are the main um doctors that make the diagnosis. There are more and more using technology, right? So they're starting to use eye tracking software, things, things along those lines. Um, but historically it's been developmental pediatricians or pediatric neurologists.
SPEAKER_00:And this is something that parents, you know, if their intuition, right, is telling them, okay, there's something, not something wrong, right? But there's something that maybe I need to look for or I need to research more of, right? Can they ask their pediatricians, hey, I think I have a concern about my child?
SPEAKER_01:Definitely. They they can ask the pediatrician in during well visits. There's um checklists that pediatricians go through. There's um different surveys that parents are given to where they ask questions, does your child respond to their name? And some basic questions like that. And then if there is a concern, the pediatrician, a very good pediatrician, would then refer out and say, especially as soon as they have a concern, there are some wait lists that are, you know, eight months, a year. So if the pediatrician has any type of concern, then definitely you can take that next step forward because it's not as if you're gonna be seen the next day. And the other thing really to think about when you were saying how maybe they have a feeling like something is wrong. So with autism, you definitely want to trust the parent's intuition. And it's not as if we sit there and say, oh, there's something wrong with our child, in the sense of like there's something fundamentally wrong with who they are as a being and stuff like that. It's very different when a parent sees their child, you know, constipated and maybe poops once a week or twice a week, and then they can see these kinds of irritable behaviors that are related to, you know, when they don't poop. That when the intuition says, that's not right, there's something wrong. It's not as if there's something wrong with the child that we're saying, you know, who who they are, but there's something not right about not pooping as much, which is 100% correct, and then also noticing any associated behaviors with something along those lines. So it's okay to say, I don't think everything is, you know, working well in their body or something along those lines. It doesn't necessarily mean you're saying there's something wrong with your child.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah, absolutely. And you as a parent, right, you or you as a person know more than anyone else, right? You know, more about your um body, more about your child, right? That yes.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yes, yes, yes. I always trust the parents. I always trust the parents. I'm like, what are yours what does your intuition say? You know, tell me, tell me what you see, because if if the parent takes their child to a doctor, the doctor's gonna see maybe 10 minutes, maybe 30 minutes, you know, if they go to a functional medicine doctor, an hour, but that's like an hour maybe once a quarter, something along those lines, right? Whereas you're with them all the time. So really trusting the parent's intuition is important. But then when you can kind of loop it into data, right? So like let's take that situation of, okay, uh, I feel like there's something wrong with my child. How do how do I present this to a doctor? Right. So let's say the parent notices, okay, my child's only pooping once a week, maybe twice a week, right? Normally one to two times a day is what what we're looking for, right? So if it's once a week, that's um that is definitely a problem. And so what you would want to do is you would want to track down some data, right? So maybe make an appointment with a GI specialist, right? So if they're constipated, let's get in front of someone who deals with digestion all day. Long right, so you need some type of pediatric GI specialist or some type of functional medicine doctor that focuses on digestion, who's very well versed in that. Most functional medicine doctors are. So you get the appointment, and now you can start taking data. Whenever they poop, write it down. And so that you can go to the doctor, whether they're functional medicine or conventional medicine, and say, listen, I'm concerned that he's only pooping one to two times per week. This is the data that I took. And what I noticed is on the days after he poops, it's a good day. He sleeps well, and you know, I don't get any complaints from school. But either on the day before he poops or like the day that he poops, maybe he poops when he comes home, those are bad days. I usually get calls from school. So you can take your intuition, like, oh, this is not good. Put data down so that then you can present that to the doctor. And the doctor gets more of an understanding of the situation and can be a lot more helpful.
SPEAKER_00:Right. I love that. I love the data. And of course, you know, you as a scientist know that even more. But I think as a parent, right, and listeners, you want to bring something, something that you see as a trend, right? Something that you're tracking on a day-to-day basis that your doctor is going to be able to view, right? Just like an overview of what is happening and your concerns. So I love that a lot. And it could be super simple, right?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, super simple. Just on a piece of paper or just message something. Like most of the doctors have, you know, all these messaging apps and portals and stuff. You just put your type your data out and then send it over. And then this way, your your intuition, the reason why you're you made the appointment is supported by by data. And then the doctor can say, Oh, yeah, okay, that makes sense. All right, here, let's try this to address this. And um, then you continue to track the data and see if that changes, right? Because then let's say they make a recommendation to do, okay, let's let's, you know, increase magnesium, right? That's that's a very basic one to do. Let's increase magnesium and see if that increases the pooping, right? So maybe you do, and now he's pooping two to three times a week. Fantastic, right? You go back to the doctor, you have your data. Okay, it's two to three times a week. He's actually sleeping much better. This is great. I'm feeling better, but we're still, you know, not pooping one to two times a day. What should we do? Right. And then this is where you can build that partnership with the doctor and say, all right, should we increase the magnesium dosage? That could be an option. Could we do something else? Right. Should we start looking at gut health? Should we do uh an organic acid test? Should we do a stool test? Should you know there's there's many options that that can really then shed light on what is the focus? And then this is how autism doesn't become overwhelmingly complex. You can get very specific based upon what the issue the child has that's really impacting their life in the family life, and really start resolving that, but but using data and using you know lab tests and things like that to really improve that child's life.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, this is so significant because when we think about, you know, I'm sure all the changes that need to happen, right, in a child, and you try to fix everything like all at once, that can be so overwhelming, right?
SPEAKER_01:It doesn't work. You can't track it. It it's it's listen, and and I love data, I love being efficient, I I'm you know, native New Yorker, I like to move fast, but most times you try and do like four or five things at one time, it's pure chaos. You have no idea what what was beneficial, what wasn't. So that's why it's you there's an element of being methodical. Like you have to be methodical. What is the one thing? Maybe two things to focus on. And then when you're you're adding supplements and interventions like changing diet, we haven't even talked about that. But when you're doing these changes, you don't want to change everything at once because A, it's really hard, right? I mean, goodness. And then B, you can't tell what really was impactful. And those are that's you really need to know what's working and what is not working for your child.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah, absolutely. It's so important. And I love that you're, you know, such an advocate for that. And like focusing again on the data, focusing on one thing, tracking the trends, doing a change, seeing what improves, and then going from there. But you it also helps the parents not to feel so overwhelmed, right? And parents already have a lot on their plate.
SPEAKER_01:So why definitely, yeah, yes, yes, yes, right. And then, like you mentioned beforehand, we have all of our emotions to deal with through this whole process, right? So we have this extra caregiver work of, you know, doctor's appointments and then probably schools and IEPs and you know, all of this other stuff. So you don't want to put too much on your plate and then have a high expectation that it's gonna succeed if you don't have the bandwidth. And it's just not a good strategy to try and change everything all at once.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, most definitely. Keep that in mind, guys.
SPEAKER_01:So listen to be kind to yourself is also an important. I didn't include that in that whole like tweaking and using science and stuff like that. But then, you know, celebrating yourself and celebrating how much work you've done. And that is really important to kind of keep the momentum going is to really recognize that you are a great parent and that you're in a challenging situation.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Oh, thank you so much for bringing that up. I think it's so important already, you know, to celebrate yourself, be kind, have that self-compassion, because it's not something that we do often, right? Already as human beings, and I can't imagine as a parent, you know, making these changes. I love that you remind them like you are a good parent, right? Like you're doing your best, you're trying things. Um and and that's important. It's important to celebrate.
SPEAKER_01:It definitely is. It is, and to be kind to oneself.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, thank you. That's nice. Um okay, so let's talk about gut. You've discussed the gut-immune brain connection in autism. For a parent who's never heard that language before, how will you explain the basics of why gut health and immune function might impact things like behavior, sleep, speech?
SPEAKER_01:The main thing would be for parents to see how what their child eats actually impacts their behavior. So usually parents start to see this correlation between, you know what? When they eat ex, then this happens. And it's usually not a good thing, right? So understanding that the gut is central, right? That's how we take the external environment, and whatever we take from that external environment is what we're saying we're going to incorporate to make ourselves, right? This is a child that's growing. So when when they're eating food that isn't nourishing, you see that in their behaviors. The mechanism of action, if this is a parent who is science-minded or at least enjoys evidence as such, the mechanism of action of gluten, right? Gluten is a hot topic in many therapeutic areas. The mechanism of action for gluten is the same for everyone. You eat the gluten through some processes of molecules produced, and it pretty much is, you know, like an open sesame, right? So it's this little master key that opens things that are normally locked. So your gut is that first thing that gets opened up. And so then you have molecules, bacteria, virus, things that normally would be contained in the gut and excreted, now can get into the body, right? And what does that mean? And that means the immune system has to work really hard to clean things up. And it goes further. So once this molecule really gets access to the body, then the central nervous system, right, including our brain, then becomes more permeable as well. So this is when parents start to worry about neuroinflammation. Um, and this is how it's all tied to diet, what we eat. Our body isn't just a silo, it's this really beautiful organism of interconnected areas that impact each other. So gut health is important, and usually parents start to notice the importance of gut health related to either the foods they eat or something like constipation or diarrhea or gas. Kids get very irritable, right? When they get bloated and they have a lot of gas, which makes sense, right? So that's usually when parents start to say, you know what, I think there's a problem with the gut. And so it's just important to understand how if there's a problem with the gut, how when it is more permeable, then the problem in the gut can now start to become more systemic.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, thank you for sharing that. And so, you know, if there are parents are are wondering, okay, how can I change that, right? Maybe how can I make or help them have better gut health. Yeah. What are some of the tips that you would provide?
SPEAKER_01:Well, so you first really want to understand, okay, what is the issue with the gut? So, and really understanding what could have been the cause for some of the gut problems, right? So antibiotics really causes the gut to become out of balance. Different sicknesses can certainly do that. Eating lots of junk food. So there's toxins, there's many different reasons as to why the gut has come out of balance, right? And you want to understand that at first because you don't want to continue doing something that is, you know, potentially causing harm to the gut. So really getting an understanding of that is important. And then you can start with obviously doing lab tests will would definitely go there because you want that to really guide your decisions. But in general, something like understanding short chain fatty acids. So beneficial bacteria in our gut, in the in the large intestines, typically, those microbes, they actually make nutrients, right? So they make different vitamins. Vitamin K is made in the gut a lot. So something like short chain fatty acid is really important in our gut, and they really help keep that gut. It's not a sealed tube, right? There's a dynamicness to it. Your gut needs to let the beneficial things in, but keep the harmful things out. So something like short chain fatty acids is produced so that the gut has that dynamicness. So butyrate is a supplement that is often given when if you do a stool test and you see that short chain fatty acids are low. So there's different supplements that can be done, or eating things like geese, or you can change diet. There's a lot of things that you can do to create that synergy. So it's not just like one thing you do and you hope, okay, I hope that works. But so something like butyrate would really be a first step in helping the gut lining be dynamic. There's other things that really get involved with the gut. So bad bacteria, right? They make different molecules that are, you know, like almost like red flags, like, okay, you know, let's cause trouble. And so there's different supplements you can do to really counter that. So one thing would be to give probiotics. So you want to say, okay, let's increase the population of beneficial bacteria, right? So so that you can have a stronger population and have the gut be more dynamic on its own. So that would be another approach. And there's there's many. You can also do things like inulin. So inulin is a prebiotic. So with that strategy, what you're trying to do is you're trying to feed the beneficial bacteria that are already there in your gut, right? So now we talked about three different ways to very simply help overall gut health. So you have the butyrate, which really is the short chain fatty acids, which kind of helps helps with the strength of the gut. And then you have probiotics, which is, you know, let's load up on the good bacteria. And then you also have something like inulin, which then provides food for the beneficial bacteria that are there. Now, there's caveats with all of this, right? So if there are different gut infections, then providing something like inulin uh might actually cause an increase in gas, right? So if you have um bacteria that are populated but in the small intestine, not in the large intestine where they belong, even if they're good bacteria, then that's when a lot of gas can be produced. Right. So you don't want to just guess at these things. You really want to use lab tests to guide you as to what's the most appropriate.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Thank you so much for that final comment, right? Like it's not even though we're mentioning these things, right? Again, what you mentioned in the beginning, it's so individualized and knowing what is going to benefit you or your child, right, is so important. And so you talk about testing, right? And you know, when I think about like a parent going into the doctor and like asking for these steps, right? They might be like, well, we don't do that. How can the parents go about that, right? Like if they're if they're concerned about the gut health, right? Or like they want to improve it and we know that they need to have some test tests done. What are the steps there?
SPEAKER_01:So it's just important that you're you're asking the right person for that lab test. Um, so so different doctors practice differently. And there's conventional medicine and functional medicine, and both are good, right? You when you're building healthcare, you want a healthcare team for your child. There's not going to be just one doctor for your entire autism-related questions. And so when you're trying to find a good doctor, right, one thing that you can do is call the office and ask them what tests are routinely ordered or really getting an understanding of how that doctor practices if it's not explained on their website. So functional medicine and integrative medicine doctors typically they don't participate in insurance. You have to pay out of pocket for that. And conventional medicine doctors many times don't order functional medicine tests, they order regular tests. But you can use both. So, you know, like take one gut infection, for instance, H. pylori, right? So H. pylori, you can get tested with a conventional medicine doctor or a functional medicine doctor. And it's just important to use both sides of the healthcare system so that you can have your resources and use it for when it's really appropriate, but use insurance to cover things that insurance covers.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah. Thank you for bringing that up, right? So utilizing the resources that you have and then following up on like what whatever else you need to do to get those tests done.
SPEAKER_01:Right. It's a team. It's a team. There's I wish there was one doctor. I would, I would tell you their name right now. If I knew one doctor that would help every single parent, I I would definitely share that information. But it it it unfortunately, autism, the the complexity is that it's different. And so different doctors are really good in different aspects of autism. And it the important part is just navigating through that whole system and just keeping in mind, okay, what is most appropriate for my child, not for other people, right? But what is what is gonna work for my child and using testing to really guide you.
SPEAKER_00:Awesome. Thank you for bringing that up. And we talked a little bit about supplements, right? Like probiotics as well. Um, we also talk about curricumin, fish oil, fish oils also review for popular kids coming, and you review those on um in your social media platforms as well, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. If parents are are curious about you know different brands and stuff. My YouTube channel, I go through parents' request, hey, good, what about this brand? What about this? What about that? So usually in my my product reviews, I try to explain why somebody would want to use this. And then we look at the label, we make sure the ingredients and the formulations and you know, sugars or all of that stuff, we we have a critical analysis for this because there's different formulations that do different things, like with magnesium, right? There's you can target the brain with magnesium or you can target the gut, which which way you want to go, right? It's a very you can't just say, just take magnesium, because that if anyone ever tells you that, oh, just take some magnesium, you know you're not talking to someone who's very knowledgeable because right, even just magnesium is not simple as go go get some magnesium.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:So, yeah, parents want like real detailed understanding of different supplements and brands. My YouTube channel definitely has that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, awesome. I love that because you already that was kind of like your feel, right? Your profession and reviewing that, like what really and it's like it's coming from from a review standpoint, like you're going to tell the parents or the viewers like what what the specific supplement is, right? And the formulation, right? Which is what you want versus like someone that is trying to sell you something that's completely different.
SPEAKER_01:No, completely different. Yep. Yep, my what what I do is really explain the science. So I like teaching it and I like teaching strategy. So that's that's how I approach everything, so that parents have that information to make their decisions.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. So head over um Dr. Lions YouTube channel. I'll make sure to put that in the show notes too. Thank you. You're welcome. So you've created the Lions Report, which is a list of functional medicine doctors who actually want to work with children with autism. What gap were you seeing that made you say, I need to build these for parents?
SPEAKER_01:So that that Lions report came out in 2020. And back then, there so many parents were going and asking just doctors for help. And they would get told things like, That's that's not reliable science, and that's not a good test, and I don't do that. And they they were really getting negative feedback, and part of it was just they were asking the wrong doctors. And I was working with parents one-on-one, and I had a good directory across the United States and then also across the world as to who are the good doctors, who really knows autism. And like I said, it there's not one doctor that really is able to cover every single aspect in autism because it is so large and so many different health issues can come up. But it's important for parents to at least have a starting point of okay, who at least can answer questions and not tell me that uh, you know, I'm completely wrong. So that was the Lions Report 2020. And then in 2026, we're releasing an updated version. So you can stay tuned for that. And it's more expanded to include different doctors that have a special interest in autism, um, but also different price points. So some doctors, you know, their first appointment is like$1,500, which is um in the book, I I tell a story about how I think back then it was 12. Oh my goodness. Yeah, I just I like oscillate. Should I? Should I not? You know, because I'm coming from pharma. So back then I was like 100% insurance-based. Where it was like, why would I go to a doctor who doesn't accept insurance? Right. That doesn't make sense, right? So it took me really long to understand you want to use both. It's not that one is better than the other. That's not true whatsoever. It's you have to use all of these chess pieces. And um, you know, finding a good doctor is important, but you don't have to spend, you know,$1,500 just for one appointment.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah. And thank you for definitely being so open about that, right? I'm sure there are some parents that have don't have those resources, right? Like they that's like a mortgage payment for them.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Having other other uh resources, right, that can help them. Right.
SPEAKER_01:And it's it's important then to be informed so that you understand, okay, is this what my child really needs? So the more diligent you need to be with your resources, the more sure you have to be of why you're doing something. Um and and that's where the analysis and the strategy comes in.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, most definitely. Thank you. When a family joins your navigating autism platform, what are some of the first questions you help them clarify around labs and testing? And are there common patterns and what's often missed?
SPEAKER_01:Hmm. Some parents don't know like what's the first test to do. Some parents want to order like 10 tests at once. There's there's lots of things. I think parents also start the platform with, in many ways, just a hesitancy to really believe that something different could be for their child, um, especially depending on the age of their child. The older their child is, the more of a habit, a mental habit we've gotten into thinking about what is possible. Um, so we do have health coaches on the platform that work with the parents on what their belief is and how do you stay motivated, how do you stay positive throughout all these ups and downs, because that is the way the autism journey is. It's it's not linear. And I trust me, I looked for what's the straightest line to the end point. And I can tell you if you want to be rigid like that, you're just setting yourself up for just a a lot of frustration with yourself. I find that parents get very hard on themselves as to like, why aren't I further? Why aren't I farther? Um, and that never makes the journey beneficial. Parents come to the platform in a variety of different ways. Some really want to focus on the science, and some really want to focus on, all right, how do I make sure that I'm in a good mindset so that we can do this? Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for giving that like overview. Yep. Now for parents who can test everything at once, right? What are a few red flag symptoms or situations where you encourage them to prioritize medical follow-ups or specialty lab testing?
SPEAKER_01:I don't usually encourage ordering like 10 lab tests at once. I I have worked with parents who who have endless budgets and sometimes too much information is not a good thing. So I really advocate being strategic as to okay, what is it that you could possibly implement and what is your intuition on what the cause is? So for someone who has a larger budget, right? Then they could say, all right, well, you know, let's do this test and this test and this test and see what comes back as an area to focus. Whereas if you had only budget for one test, let's take the test that is, you know, providing the most information and could give us clues as to what the second test would be the best. So that it's just a really difference in strategy, but it doesn't necessarily make things go faster because the whole idea is to find what is very relevant to that child, right? So you think about okay, what is the number one issue that my child is dealing with that's really preventing them to experience life the way they want, and then focusing on that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, awesome. Kind of like while we talked about it uh at the beginning, right? Like just focusing on one change at a time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, because you can't like you can you can find five things to to work on, but you literally can't work on five things, right? Well, right because it it requires, it requires focus, it requires, you know, implementing different supplements, and it's an ebb and a flow. The thing with supplements and prescriptions is it's not as if you just give it to them and then you're just gonna keep giving it to them. You got to optimize dose. So take let's take magnesium, since magnesium has been such a hot topic today, right? So if a child is deficient in magnesium, right? And and the majority of Americans are deficient in magnesium. Right. So ballpark more than likely deficient magnesium. So you start giving them magnesium, maybe you start seeing some changes. It depends on exactly what um where in their body the magnesium is deficient. And then the thing is have to decrease that dose once you start to hit like saturation, right? So so once you make up that deficiency, then if you're giving additional magnesium at that dose, right, if you're continuing at that main first dose, then your child's gonna have too much magnesium. And so then you might see other behaviors change, right? Especially if this child isn't speaking. So you have to be mindful that the whole strategy for these different supplements is you give them for that need, but then you also take it away. And the whole idea is you want to build it so that their body isn't dependent upon supplements for the rest of their life. So these are these are things you all have to think about, which is why you can't do five different focuses that might have five different supplements each. And there's a lot of fine-tuning, there's a lot of ebb and flow. And this is also where the parents' intuition comes in. So with magnesium, yes, you you address that deficiency. And then a lot of times it's the parents who are like, you know what? I don't think we need that much magnesium. And it's like, okay, so maybe decrease it by a quarter, decrease it by half, see how that goes. And that's really what this whole process is. You can't, you can't do everything at once, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so let's talk about nutrition changes, right? Some families are exploring gluten-free, dairy-free, or other special diets, while others feel they're just too overwhelming. How do you help parents think through whether a dietary change is appropriate and how to try it in a realistic, not perfectionistic way?
SPEAKER_01:So I learned this lesson early on. I can talk about myself. So um I did not want to go gluten-free and dairy-free. And I just thought, and this was, you know, like 12 years ago, uh, you couldn't really just go to the supermarket or a restaurant and get all these dairy, dairy-free and gluten-free options. But I didn't want to do that. I thought, oh my God, this is ridiculous. Everything about my life has to change because of autism, including my bagel, right? Like I used to love bagels, right? And it was just like, I can't even have a bagel because I didn't want to have then gluten in the house. And I'm not gonna eat a bagel and my daughter can't eat a bagel. That's just rude. So um, I learned early on that you can't make someone make diet changes. So the the navigating autism in this platform that we've been talking about, the guidance is based upon a circle. So the parent starts where they think they're gonna be successful. So maybe they start with supplements, right? Maybe they start with vitamin D. They get a vitamin D test, they see there's deficiency there, they start there. Maybe they notice some a few changes and they're like, huh, okay. All right, what's next? Right. And you've got to build that trust and confidence. So for some parents, they're just like, I don't want to touch diet for a variety of reasons. Maybe it's just too hard. Maybe they don't have the bandwidth to figure out, okay, now what food am I going to buy? A lot of times that changes the way you cook. Now are you cooking two different meals now? One for the kid, one for the rest of the family. And it just can become overwhelming really quickly. So the whole idea is to really start where the parent feels successful. So if the parent is like, I want to make diet changes, but that just sounds terrible right now, don't do it. You can't, you can't do something well and successful if you start out being like, I don't really want to do this, right? Think about anything we've done in life. Like, okay, I really should get up out of bed and I don't want to, you know, right? And then how's the rest of the day? Not that good, right? So that's that's the same, same thing, anything related to autism. So if diet doesn't seem like an area they'd be successful in, right? Some kids are extremely picky eaters and they're afraid, oh, if I take away one thing, then you know, that's 20% of their nutrition or something like that, right? First off, that might be the wrong strategy, right? Why would you want to take something away if they're real picky eaters? Maybe their strategy would be like, all right, let me start adding in something. But still, that parent might be like, I don't want to do that. And that's totally fine. The question then becomes, what do you want to do? We can't not do anything, right? Because that's that's not gonna help the situation. We've got to do something. What is it that you want to be successful in that you you think, okay, yeah, that sounds good, right? Maybe it is get a doctor. Okay, start there. Maybe it is do a lab test. Yeah, lab tests will get me motivated because then I'll see those red lines. They don't lie. So it's really just understanding what the parent is able to do and what the parent thinks they'll be successful in, and really starting there.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Awesome. I love that so much because you're right. We have to we have to know ourselves, right? And know what how we can do, right? The bandwidth that we have and what are the changes that we are willing to do and do consistently.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, consistently. Oh, that is such we didn't even talk about that, but consistently is such an important aspect to everything relating to autism. Yeah. So it doesn't make sense to make a diet change and be like, okay, you know, we're not eating gluten except on, you know, for breakfast. For breakfast every day, we're still having a bagel, right? You're not gluten-free. So you don't want to, you know, try and like explain yourself, like, yeah, we're gluten-free, except for then do something else.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yes, most definitely. Thank you. You help parents with things like navigating school and understanding why a child may not be progressing like peers. What have you found most helpful for for parents when they are advocating for their child in educational settings?
SPEAKER_01:I think the most important thing is for parents to truly believe and understand in their child's ability to learn. And then that helps them advocate much stronger and more fiercefully. Um, and obviously diplomatically, I can say most times going in there and being like, this is what I want is not gonna work. You have to build a team approach to that. Um so there's give and take. I also have found that when teachers understand how involved the parent is, then the dynamic changes as well. So sometimes, like uh, let's say in school, right? If if a child is um, I don't know, just having trouble sitting down, let's say more than five minutes or something like that. It will the way to approach that is to work with your child at home and see, okay, can they sit here longer than five minutes with me doing what they really love? So find out what your child loves, see if they can do what they love with you for the same amount of time or for whatever that instance is at school. If they can't, right? If something that they absolutely love and they're doing it with you and there's there's no other demands on them, if they can't do that for let's say for the five minutes that at school, then it becomes very clear, all right, let's really focus on health because there's something going on here, right? The school is saying this thing, and I'm seeing the exact same thing at home. So therefore it's not a school problem. It's not a child problem. I certainly wouldn't say that, but I would say, all right, we need to look at this a little differently. And health, a lot of times, is what prevents kids from really being able to engage fully in the learning. They're listening, but we want them to engage, we want them to access their education, not just kind of be a passive audience to it. So that can be the first step. And then if their child then, let's say, is able to sit there for 10 minutes, 15 minutes, right? Then you can go back to the school and very nicely explain how, okay, at this is what we do at home. And this is, you know, we we can do that for 15 minutes. Can you help me understand what's going on in school? Right. And then this is where you start asking for data. So this is where, you know, an ABC, so antecedent behavior consequence. What's going on in school? Just like the example we gave in the beginning about um, you know, a parent writing down the data for conservation, right? You want to look at the same kind of data. So you could ask the school to say, could could you give me more information about that? So you can really start to look at trends and patterns if there's a difference between how your child is at home and at school. Then you've got to understand, okay, what is causing that difference?
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. I love that. A lot of data.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, a lot of data. Yep. It's amazing. Data, data doesn't lie. Exactly. Yep. Awesome. When you think about your daughter, right, your science background and the thousands of families you've reached, what do you hope your work with autism and navigating autism will change in how the world approaches autism?
SPEAKER_01:I hope people see people with autism as the really smart and engaging people that they are. I feel that once the autism label is there, many people look at them as less than human. And I really would like there to be an understanding of the variety of health issues that cause behaviors, and also that these kids are learning all along. And it's really a lot of times issues with communication and issues with maybe keeping their body still so they can engage in school. And I think it's really important to be able to see that, but then also to validate that in the healthcare space. Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So a lot of advocacy, right? Yes. Yes, yes, yes, definitely. Yeah. And it sometimes is just people n understanding, right? And knowing what that is and knowing how how they can help. Sometimes just not having the knowledge, right, is the problem. Yep.
SPEAKER_01:You've got to know what's possible.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Dr. Lyons, anything else that you would like to share with the audience or anything else that you would like the listeners to know? Just to be kind to yourself.
SPEAKER_01:There are there are tough days for sure without autism. Autism meltdowns are very traumatic. They're traumatic for the child and they're traumatic for the parent. So one thing that's really important is self-care all along. And it starts really small. So I know for me it started with um just having like a cup of tea. My daughter started putting on her jacket by herself. I actually didn't know what to do with myself because I was so used to like having to do everything. Then when I didn't have to do that, it was like, I'm going to hover and I'm going to end up smothering her. I can't smother her. So when you start to have that void, just know you want to give that attention so that it grows. And so that means you have time to really start nourishing yourself because you've been through a lot of stress. So I think that would be the last important thing for parents to know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And so important. Thank you so much for sharing that. And where can the listeners find you?
SPEAKER_01:Sure. So um navigatingautism.com, and autism spelt differently, is um where to go if parents are interested in joining the platform. We also accept uh flexible spending. So we try and make it as accessible to parents as possible. And you can check out my YouTube channel and pretty much Google searching. You search for many topics in autism. I've had my YouTube channel for over 10 years. So there definitely is a lot of information when you start reading about autism. My name certainly pops up quite a bit.
SPEAKER_00:Which is great. Wonderful. I love that. Yes, I'll make sure to to link all that so it's easier for the listeners to access it. Awesome. But thank you so much for joining me. As always, this podcast is for educational purposes only and not meant to replace medical advice. So please talk with your child's healthcare team about the right treatment for your family. If you found this episode helpful, share it with a friend and don't forget to follow the show so you don't miss future conversations. Thank you for listening. Stay safe and stay healthy. Until next time. Bye bye.